Tracking issue with controllers (Is this normal behaviour?)

MWilliamGoody2303
Pioneer

Tracking issue with controllers (Is this normal behaviour?)

(My ongoing issue in my other post is seperate to this. I've been having this issue for a while as well, but have been distracted with the other one)

I'm having a strange problem with the tracking where when I hold either of the controllers in (what seems to be) direct view of either of the base stations, they will jump or 'wobble' up and down. This happens with both base stations.

Some strange things to note:

1.) I'm not certain, but it seems to be when my body is occluding the view of the other base station, but what's even stranger is that I've tried only using one base station but the problem is still there. (I've tried both individually).

2.) Even if I change the rotation of the base stations, the area that the wobble happens in seems to be exactly the same, which makes no sense to me.

3.) I've tried covering up anything that could potentially reflect in the room (there was hardly anything anyway), and it hasn't helped. Additionally, it didn't alter the severity of the problem in any way, so I think reflections are not part of the problem.

4.) My headset tracking is absolutely perfect. This is only a controller problem (yet again, just like my first issue in my other thread.

5.) This was happening before I got a new Vive bundle via an exchange, so it's not a hardware problem.

6.) If I bring my controllers closer to the base stations, it gets progressively worse. If it's right in front of it, the controllers shake a lot. It only really happens if I'm pointing the top of the controller towards it though. Maybe that's why the change in rotation I mentioned earlier made no difference - because it just doesn't like the top of the controller, maybe?

7.) I've tried switching to USB 2.0.

8.) The Vive camera has always been turned off.

9.) I normally have bluetooth on, but switching it off does nothing.

10.) I've cleaned the base stations, but as I said, the problem was there with my old Vive as well.

11.) I must have run Room Setup a hundred times at this point.

12.) The plastic film has been removed since I got the Vive.

13.) I've updated my chipset and USB drivers.

14.) I've flashed the BIOS to update to the latest version.

 

There are a lot of things I'm forgetting because my mind is just fried right now; I've been consumed with trying to fix these problems for the past month, and It's really beginning to irritate me now.

 

Final question: Is this normal behaviour? I'm sure it can't be, based off what others have said online, but I'm really not sure.

MWilliamGoody2303
Pioneer

Re: Tracking issue with controllers (Is this normal behaviour?)

Also:

1.) I've tried using the sync cable with the base stations on channels A-B (I'm still using the sync cable now, just to be sure)

2.) I've not got any of the performance settings on, I've disabled the Windows Power Saving option through the SteamVR options, and I have the graphics card set to Prefer Maximum Performance in the NVIDIA Control Panel.

3.) I've reinstalled SteamVR and the Vive Software/drivers a number of times.

Vive Staff

Re: Tracking issue with controllers (Is this normal behaviour?)

@MWilliamGoody2303

 

Can you send me a picture of your room so I can see the layout? That behavior sounds a LOT like reflections in the room, but I'd have to see.  In regards to your query about base station positioning: There are inertial sensors inside those things which automatically correct for any positioning. In other words, it doesn't matter how you place them (upside down, sideways), the software automatically translates it back to a default reference point internally.

Thanks,

-John C

"Welcome to the desert of the real."

If your base station has a Fault 02/03 error or a red light or both, the ONLY solution is to contact our support on vive.com and set up an RMA. There is no user fix for this issue.

Vive Care Operating Hours: 9am to 6pm PST, M-F
MWilliamGoody2303
Pioneer

Re: Tracking issue with controllers (Is this normal behaviour?)

This is gonna sound really stupid, but I'm struggling to find an option anywhere to send image attachments. Haha.
Vive Staff

Re: Tracking issue with controllers (Is this normal behaviour?)

"Photos" there's a little camera icon next to it.photos.PNG

"Welcome to the desert of the real."

If your base station has a Fault 02/03 error or a red light or both, the ONLY solution is to contact our support on vive.com and set up an RMA. There is no user fix for this issue.

Vive Care Operating Hours: 9am to 6pm PST, M-F
MWilliamGoody2303
Pioneer

Re: Tracking issue with controllers (Is this normal behaviour?)

That's weird. I can't see that option on my phone. I'll just send it here on my desktop then.20180208_004233[1].jpg
20180208_004327[1].jpg

I've only just considered after looking at the second image - It wouldn't be the posters, would it? I didn't realise they were that reflective.

 

Also:

I've tried covering up the light bulb and switching it off as well.

I tried draping a bed sheet over the metal bars of the bunk bed in case that was reflecting.

I tried turning the monitors around so they weren't facing the base station by the door, and testing that one.

None of these changed the situation.

MWilliamGoody2303
Pioneer

Re: Tracking issue with controllers (Is this normal behaviour?)

Nevermind. I just tried removing the posters from the room entirely, and it did nothing.

 

As I said before though, the part that really confuses me is that it will only wobble in that spot if I'm standing in the middle of the room with my back blocking the other base station from view. If I leave my controller there but move my body out of the way, the problem goes away. But, If I turn off the other base station so the tracking is only running off of the one, then I still get the problem anyway. I really don't understand it.

MWilliamGoody2303
Pioneer

Re: Tracking issue with controllers (Is this normal behaviour?)

20180208_020219[1].jpg

This is the wall that I'm facing when I get the problem. Behind me and to the right is where the other base station is. So, like I said before, I get the same problem with the other base station as well. If I turn my back to the base station in the picture above, and face the one by the computer, the same weird wobbling happens if I move it in the same sort of area, relative to where I am, and each of the base stations are. This is why I'm so confused; It doesn't really seem to be some sort of reflective problem, and it's not faulty hardware as it was happening with my previous Vive bundle as well.

MWilliamGoody2303
Pioneer

Re: Tracking issue with controllers (Is this normal behaviour?)

I should clarify what the problem manifests as. Maybe wobbling isn't the best word to use. It's more like there's a certain area where it'll either jump a few inches as if It's forgotten where the controller is, or it'll slightly move away from me, and then back again as I pan the controller horizontaly. Unlike the other issue we were talking about before in the other thread, it seems like other people have had this issue as well, but I never found a solution.

I can't be 100% sure, but it seems like this guy had the same problem:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/5ubh71/controller_tracking_issues/

MWilliamGoody2303
Pioneer

Re: Tracking issue with controllers (Is this normal behaviour?)

So, recently I tried taking the base stations down from the wall and positioning them in a number of different places around the room to see if the location of the tracking issue changed. I started by only moving one of them to different areas. To begin with, it seemed like I was getting the problem in the same area regardless of the different base station locations which seemed to indicate there was a problem in the room, as you said. But as I started moving them around a lot more (and moving the second base station as well) it actually changed where the problem was happening, and as I suspected, it followed the base station. So, whenever I move the controllers to a point where they're aiming at a base station, or are in some sort of direct view of one of them, I get the tracking problem.

This was all tested last week, but today I remembered that I only get the problem if I'm occluding the other base station (even if I turn that one off, which makes no sense) and after messing around with it more, I realised that if I continually move the controllers around in the area that has the problem, they gradually get a bit better. But, If I then turn around and do the same thing to the other base station, it starts off bad again and then gradually gets better again. This seems to keep going every time I turn to face the opposite base station and wave it infront for a little while: It'll start off bad, then get a bit better. Based off what I've seen other people say online, it sounds to me like it's something to do with one basestation taking the tracking of the controller away from the other one, and it's a bit out of alignment, which I think is what we were talking about before (If I'm remembering right).

This brings me back to my original question though: Is this normal behaviour? It seems to me that no matter where I move the base stations to, how tightly I mount them on the walls, or how many times I re-run the Room Setup, it always happens to the same degree. But what confuses me is that I saw someone who had the same problem on Reddit, and one or two people responded saying that it isn't normal behaviour, and their tracking is always perfect.

 

As a side note, I'm still yet to try the Vive on my Dad's computer to diagnose the input issue I was having in the other thread we were speaking in. I'll get back to you when we've tested it.

Vive Staff

Re: Tracking issue with controllers (Is this normal behaviour?)

@MWilliamGoody2303

 

 

So to clarify, there is no "taking the tracking away" as you may have noticed, the base stations are only sending signals, not receiving them. The receptors are on the controllers and the HMD, so there's no "hand off" so to speak. 

You can test the base stations by only setting one up and switching it to channel A and seeing how well it works tracking while you face it and do the same with the other. If one is noticably worse, that might help you isolate the issue.

Answering your question: It's not normal to have those tracking issues, but it's not uncommon for that to happen due to environmental factors. We're dealing with infrared light here, so anything that reflects or emits that (Kinect, tv remote, certain types of lightbulbs, even heaters could conceivably be a source.) might interfere with the tracking.

Thanks,

-John C

"Welcome to the desert of the real."

If your base station has a Fault 02/03 error or a red light or both, the ONLY solution is to contact our support on vive.com and set up an RMA. There is no user fix for this issue.

Vive Care Operating Hours: 9am to 6pm PST, M-F
MWilliamGoody2303
Pioneer

Re: Tracking issue with controllers (Is this normal behaviour?)

So I've tried powering them on seperately with the other one unplugged and running new room setups while they're in Channel A, and yeah, they definitely still get the problem.

 

 

To clarify, I did what you said:

 

While they're off, unplug one,

then start the other one up,

change it to channel A,

Then run Room Setup and test it.

MWilliamGoody2303
Pioneer

Re: Tracking issue with controllers (Is this normal behaviour?)

And in response to what you were saying about things in the room that would cause problems:

Kinect: I don't own one

tv remote: I don't own one

Certain types of lightbulbs: I'm not sure about mine, but I have previously tried turning it off and covering it, but it didn't help

Heaters: I only have a radiator in the room that's by the door (you can see it in the second picture above), and that's out of view of the base station that I'm normally testing the problem with.

 

So, have there been any problems you've come across in the past where the controller tracking struggles when facing the basestations at certain angles?

Vive Staff

Re: Tracking issue with controllers (Is this normal behaviour?)

@MWilliamGoody2303

 

Only at the extreme edges of the base station FOV. Direct line of sight should be perfect. My colleague pointed out that you have a metal bed frame which may be the culprit. Can you test the base stations outside of your room? I'd like to isolate the issue if possible.

 

Also, do you own any PC peripherals or toys that might generate IR?

Thanks,

-John C

"Welcome to the desert of the real."

If your base station has a Fault 02/03 error or a red light or both, the ONLY solution is to contact our support on vive.com and set up an RMA. There is no user fix for this issue.

Vive Care Operating Hours: 9am to 6pm PST, M-F
MWilliamGoody2303
Pioneer

Re: Tracking issue with controllers (Is this normal behaviour?)

Testing outside of my room definitely won't be an option today or anytime soon, but I may be moving this all to my Dad's place at some point to see if I get the same problem there. At the moment though, our first plan is to have him bring his computer to me and test the Vive as it is now on his computer, to see if we still get the input issue that we discussed in the other thread. That's priority right now, and then based off how things go after we test all that, we'll probably try it at his place. There's not really anywhere else in my house to try it as an alternative.

 

As for peripherals, in my room I have:

Steering Wheel and Pedals (you can see it mounted on my desk in a picture above)

LED Mouse

LED Keyboard

Xbox One Controller

PlayStation 3 Controller

Xbox One Wireless Adapter (but it's been unplugged and sitting behind my computer for many months)

LED Gaming Headset

720p Webcam

 

Would the Xbox One Controller wireless adapter cause problems even if it's unplugged and completely without power?

 

Also, I am in the same room as the Router, but I've tried unplugging its power entirely and it doesn't help. I saw online that they're notorious for causing Vive problems.

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