06-23-2017 02:45 PM - edited 06-23-2017 02:49 PM
06-23-2017 06:12 PM
That was why I was asking, didn't quite understand why we had to double store the games. I tried it today with Arcade Saga which is free to demo (12 x 5 min rounds only) and it seemed to be a bit of a mission to firstly download onto the host then deploy to the selected client.
Basically there is no way you can download a new game that a customer may ask for there and then without the customer having to wait a good 15-30 mins or longer depending on the size of the game. You need to know in advance so that you can be ready so I agree whilst there is a 600+ library of games we will be limited to choosing 30 odd titles that we feel are the most popular.
I like the premise of Viveport Arcade but unfortunately it is not yet polished enough and the pricing needs to be reviewed. Interestingly I was in correspondence with the arcade team and they mentioned that there is currently a promotion ongoing whereby prices are a lot better (off the top of my head I think it is $1,000 for 200k points instead of the advertised minimum purchase of $1,500 for 150k points). Now why this isn't advertised on the viveport arcade site is a mystery to me.
Another frustration is that only wired money transfers are accepted currently. Guys, come on! really?! 2017 and only wired money transfers are accepted? you then have to wait 2-3 days before you receive the points allocation.
We have a very tough decision to make as we will be opening imminently and we really are not sure whether we should opt for Viveport Arcade or stick to Steam commercial license for the timebeing (Steam isn't ideal either tbh).
In summary I don't think independent VR arcade owners are being treated fairly here and whilst a big portion of the blame rests on HTC/Steam's shoulders, I also feel many developers are overcharging for the monthly (per seat) pricing.
07-07-2017 09:50 AM
When thinking about Viveport Arcade I see it as a premium tax to operators.
The pricing is ludicrous, as well as a suggestion to buy a Vive Business Edition that cost unreasonable 1.5x (price + VAT) the cost of regular VIVE but I still have no clue where is that added value to be completely honest.
Just a quick napkin math of VIVE Tax below:
If they keep the pricing as is, they should provide more for Operators, spare parts after x-amount of hours or something, as otherwise, where is the added value for this ludicrous pricing? I bet a person or a group of people who came up with the pricing got bonuses or promotion as this is complete corporate BS.
600+ games where I bet 50% are poor quality and copies of other games. These are arcade games, not full-length AAA games.
I was thinking to become an Operator myself, but putting numbers together it doesn't seem to make any sense. Just look at the numbers below, I researched a place, big enough for 8 Vive setups @$20/hour, 4 employees (@minimum wage) to be able to run the place for 7 days a week and I would make a whopping 478 profit a month. Ok, ok, I know it's rough, there are no insurance expenses, accounting, payroll etc... But still, that just adds up more cost and no profit at all.
Companies who's business is so closely tied with Virtual Reality, it's success and longevity are killing it, that includes game devs/publishers, how short sighted they are.
At this stage of VR, it's better to be an indie game studio with talented game designers and milk this market while this nonsense lasts and VR dies altogether.
So what's wrong with the pricing.
17 points per minute, and higher for some other titles. Well, the best-selling titles probably are the ones that have higher point price per minute anyway. Flat price for all titles. The price has to come down from $10 to $5 at least, or completely different pricing structure at all.
Why is it that Operators have to cover all the cost. As @sector7vr mentioned with AppStore, devs should be responsible for covering the cost of VIVEPort Arcade, not the Operators. And HTC's share of 50%, for what exactly? For providing a platform for its device?
It's like if Apple would charge all iOS users $5/hour for when the screen is on and device unlocked and in use for calls or messages.
07-18-2017 10:02 AM
Could you please clarify if the Viveport Arcade system only covers the back-end content delivery and distributions to developers, or does it also cover front-end functions such as booking & payment processing?
07-18-2017 11:26 AM
No been onm here for a while... so heres an update: After a few months running I've realised one thing... Steams commerical licensing isn't bad. Rather than going for quantity go for quality. Curate your experiences. With about 3 or 4 different titles per rig you can allow customers to hop between more machines. We've only got 4 rigs, thats 16 different games to try in an hour! Obviosuly if you are really busy then they need to book a specific machine or two... but our approch there is to tell them to come with friends and get an exclusive booking.
The only difficult bit is having some multiplayer titles which means doubling up on licenses reducing the variety. Part of your marketing then is to rotate titles and bring back popular ones regulary and let people know what you'll be running. I can recommend springboardVR as an arcade mangement platform. It best feature.. disabling the system menu button. That's a 50% saving on labour costs As well as creating times gaming sessions it also has analytics showing you what games are played most, and also blocks access to steam home so people can't go buying new games if you accidentally forgot to uncheck the "remember card details" when renewing your licenses. It has a nice in HMD VR menu for launching games and the bit I'm really really waiitng for... which was a feature request from us... a booking system plug in for the website. the other feature they added was to be able to create custom length game session on the quick menu. We have a 15 minute taster for £5 which people wandering past use. We don't advertise it on the website but when people have other plans they can't stop for an hour. But we've had repeat vistors for an hour with a group boking who were intially 15 minute walk ins. Still making a mahoosive loss of about £2,000 per month, but we haven't started marketing yet! Coming soon.
07-26-2017 11:49 PM
07-27-2017 05:55 PM - edited 07-27-2017 05:57 PM
Some publishers will talk to you, some won't. Before bothering them, check the Discussion, and their website, because someone's already likely asked them about it, or they have placed the commercial pricing on their website. I'll try to stay away from most of the Steam commercial pricing because most of it is ridiculous, a $8.99 game commercial pricing for $39.99 *CYBERPONG* .
CE version of Vive .. it has a different EULA/T+C that excludes commercial use, so that's not a viable avenue.
07-30-2017 06:39 AM
Another point of view.. we are VR evangelists for VIVE headsets and VR games.. yes, we are making a profit allowing people to play their games, however the players may go home and buy a VIVE and/or that cool game they had fun playing at our establishment. The publishers should pay US, or provide the games at a discount, as we're helping them reach a wider audience than they're able to get on their own.
08-09-2017 04:53 PM - edited 08-09-2017 04:55 PM
08-16-2017 10:13 AM
Just as a quick pointer, you can actually disable the menu button without using springboard; it's in the developer section of the steamVR settings (definately saves the labor cost though lol).
09-28-2017 09:14 AM
It appears the Viveport Arcade is finally "live" for North America .. https://arcade.viveport.com/landing .. I couldn't find the actual values for the points purchases and game per-minute-costs without first creating the account and installing the ACM software. Once done, I could see the base purchase price for points works out to $100 for 20,000 points. Small bonuses are given for larger points purchases but there appears to be a restriction per-day for points or dollars purchased and spent.
Most all of the games I'd looked at in the past or purchased via STEAM for myself were 1,000 points per hour = $.083333 USD/minute = $5 USD/hr. That seems to be the default value - Overkill VR, Arizona Sunshine, Panzer Panic, "Spacecats with Lasers VR" and "Volumetric Oscilloscope" were all the same price. This is better than the previous pricing I'd seen but I'm probably going to use a small selection of games I curate and get them from Steam Cafe and other licensing arrangements .. I don't see the client co-existing with the other VR arcade clients out there like SynthesisVR or the others. I'm assuming games I've licensed like Space Pirate Trainer can't be added to the client menu if they aren't available in the Viveport Arcade?
09-28-2017 09:17 AM
Per the Section below, how do we go about integrating games unavailable in Viveport Arcade? Space Pirate Trainer is a must have especially with the new full release.
I have direct deals with certain developers or want to pursue deals independently, how does that affect using Viveport Arcade?
Viveport Arcade is meant as efficient solution for both operators and developers to mitigate having to independently negotiate hundreds of deals and to establish a transparent payment and reporting system for both sides. If in certain cases there are pre-existing arrangements between operator and developer, we respect those partnerships and an operator may simply choose to not select that specific title from the Viveport Arcade portfolio if also available. Viveport Arcade will not be responsible for the deal terms made independently of the Viveport Arcade program; however, we will work with the operator to ensure integration if using the platform UI. If there is a title not apparent on the available titles, operators may inquire directly to the Viveport Arcade team for potential support in securing the title.
Hi @Infiniteloopvr ,
We understand how important this is and it is nearly the top of our priority list. At this stage of the beta, we're currently focused on ensuring stability and performance of Viveport titles. We are looking forward to expanding the client to be able to work with external content within the next few months once we finish fully flushing out the integration methodology. I can confirm that it is a feature slated on our near-future roadmap given how critical it is to operator flexibility.
Technical Specialist; San Francisco, CA