Viveport Arcade: Operator FAQs

Memyselfandi
New Arrival

Re: Viveport Arcade: Operator FAQs

Hi there,

Anything new about Vive Port Arcade?
It's been a while since the last post.

Thank you for a short info.

Thomas
Clankhay
New Arrival

Viveport Pricing

Hi, I was thinking about trying to start up a "VRcade", or whatever the technical term is, and while looking I found that it can be very difficult and expensive to get licenses for games for such an arcade, and that the Viveport Arcade is intended to help fix that, and I found some prices for game time, but am unsure if they are correct:Viveport Prices.PNG

It appears that it would cost $10 for an hour of gameplay? This seems to be too expensive to be viable. I say this as, at least where I live, $10 is about how much I could charge for an hour, and $15 (which would probably barely cover rent + game fees, not to mention startup costs) would be a stretch to sell, and not many people would be willing to pay that much. Are these numbers wrong perhaps? Or am I misinterpreting them? Or is my idea of how running the arcade wrong, if so can you tell me what I should do to make these costs viable, or give me a link or source explaining this? Sorry about all the questions, it just seems like with these prices, going to individual devs may be the only way to profit from setting up  a VR arcade.

supra
Contributor

Re: Viveport Pricing

Echoing @Clankhay's questions --  to run a quick scenario playing a game 'full time'...

 

$10/hr for 1,000 points * 8hrs of operation per day* 30 days of operation per month = $2,400

 

With a 50/50 split, $1,200 goes to the developer and $1,200 goes to HTC.

 

That seems off by orders of magnitude.  I'm not aware of any developers that charge $1,200/month ($14,400) per year for a commercal license.  Space Pirate Trainer commercial license is only $30/month.  And that's for 24 hours a day.

 

At $1 for 1,000 points the SPT folks would be making $120 for an 4X increase in their profits.  HTC would get $120 of the $240 per month for that seat.

 

At $0.25 for 1,000 points SPT takes home the $30 they're expecting -- with HTC taking $30 of the $60 per month for providing the Viveport Arcade service.  Given the massively increased reach of potential commerical licensees, it would make sense for developers to hop on board.

  

At sub $1 per 1,000 point prices, an arcade operator can make money while keeping prices low for visitors  -- charging perhaps $5-15/hr depending on the location of the arcade or kinds of permium services provided around the experience.  Arcades will compete on features and the users will win.

 

Retail space, payroll, utilities, advertising, etc are real fixed costs to consider, as well as less than full time utilization due to the ebb and flow of available visitors, especially in smaller markets. There are also significant startup costs and risks facing operators.

 

At $10 per 1,000 points, it doesn't seem at all viable without a co-located, tertiary, likely non-VR service or product as the primary profit driver.  If you've got to sell liquor or something just to get by then that's a lot of additional time and money and limits the total audience.

 

It would be awesome to see physical spaces flourish -  in particular, I think that a lot of multiplayer and social experiences would benefit from having groups of real life friends coming in and playing in groups.  The extra-low latency of being in the same place and on hte same network is also a huge advantage for certain kinds of experiences.

 

Are the prices correct?   Could you please clarify? Thanks in advance for your time and help!

sector7vr
Explorer

Re: Viveport Pricing

Agreed. You would either need an existing establishment willing to sublease space for you to operate, an alternate product with higher profit margins or the ability to charge $40 per hour to make money at these rates. Ridiculous. They need to make more multiplayer games where kids, friends and families can come in and play with eachother and interract. HTC is going to have to rethink this. I wonder how many points they've sold to date. Even at 50% discount its still very high, and for second rate games at that. 

AlteredRealitiesVRArcade
Explorer

Re: Viveport Pricing

Good morning! I've been following this thread for a while and have not seen anything new about this product.. has Viveport Arcade been abandoned?

Vive Staff

Re: Viveport Pricing

@AlteredRealitiesVRArcade

Hello, we're still hard at work developing and polishing the arcade platform... More information will be forthcoming soon. 


- David R

Technical Specialist; San Francisco, CA

Junkrat
Contributor

Re: Viveport Pricing

Hi @VibrantNebula

 

I'm a little confused given that the viveport arcade platform seems to be functioning and is open to registrations with the store also functioning.  As an indy VR arcade who are very close to opening, we were almost at the stage where we were going to deposit money to buy credits, however your post has now cast doubt on that.


Please can you confirm that the viveport arcade is ready and functioning for VR arcades as we do not want to deposit the money only to find the platform still does not work.

 

Thanks

Vive Staff

Re: Viveport Pricing

     Hi @Junkrat
     I apologize for confusing you; the rollout of Viveport is complex and has many moving parts. Viveport Arcade is still in pre-release beta and the platform is still being actively developed and polished. It has not been abandoned as @AlteredRealitiesVRArcade asked. The beta is fully functional and you can indeed purchase credits and spend them on titles. The current version preview release includes a "demo-mode" that will let you explore the software. That said, we're still hard at work processing feedback from operators/developers and getting everything ready for a full public release. We'll be updating the community on our latest developments soon. PM me if you have futher questions. 


- David R

Technical Specialist; San Francisco, CA

sector7vr
Explorer

Re: Viveport Pricing

Thank you for the update @VibrantNebula

What's the ETA for the public release?

What additional features will be added?

Are you gathering info on price points?

Are there any operators successfully utilizing your Arcade management software at its current price point?

If so can you provide store statistics ?

If not, Is there any consideration in reducing the pricing to a more feasible amount?

There was a disappointment in direct to consumer sales because of the price of the tech. The Arcade and out of home amusement should keep the industry afloat long enough for the pricing of the tech to decline to an affordable amount. However, Viveport is now going to be in the same predicament with its viveport arcade subscriptions once operators realize they cannot operate at a profit with these price points.

The sole purpose is to keep Indy developers developing and to keep units selling. With long term focus being on the direct sale to consumers once prices decline. Not to overcharge operators on licensing fees.
sector7vr
Explorer

Re: Viveport Pricing

@Junkrat

As was I, I am fully prepared to be operational. However I surveyed many would be customers and they said they wouldn't pay over $20 to play for an hour. Which is cause for concern and pause. I am in south Florida.
Vive Staff

Re: Viveport Pricing

   @sector7vr I am not on the arcade team and thus I'm not the best person to answer these questions with the level of accuracy that an operator like yourself would require. I've pinged a member of the team to take a look at your questions.

 

   I can suggest to anyone reading this to continue to post their thoughts, concerns, and feedback on this thread as everything that's posted here will be seen by the arcade team. The more detailed feedback, the better equipped our teams will be to meet your needs. I'd love to see this thread come back to life now that we're nearing public release. Every bit of feedback is valued.

 

   In regards to pricing, it may be incredibly helpful to the arcade team to provide real world numbers (profit margins, taxes, overhead... ect) so our developers can have a real-world understanding of all of the factors that an operator faces in a given region. Since this is an international launch, it's very difficult to understand what financial difficulties an operator may face in their specific geographic location. You can PM me with any info that you feel uncomfortable posting here and I'll ensure an arcade team member sees it.


- David R

Technical Specialist; San Francisco, CA

AlteredRealitiesVRArcade
Explorer

Re: Viveport Pricing

@VibrantNebula, with all respect, are there not VR arcade businesses in the US that are in the Beta program? Those organizations should be providing the feedback you are searching for.

 

From my admittedly limited POV, there are three types of VR arcade business trying to operate in the US. 1: The BIG BOYS, like Dave and Busters, The Main Event, IMAX, etc. that would have VR as a small part of their overall operation and are likely to be using non-Vive equipment. They can build a VR experience without HTC or Valve if they want. They won't be using the Viveport Arcade.

 

2. The MALL STORES, which are operating small kiosks or storefronts with 6-8 Vives, selling short experiences to the curious for $20/15m for example. They're forced to run during mall hours, so often cannot be open during prime evening hours, and have the extremely high mall rent plus mall management "VIG" as I call it (15% to them of every dollar earned over X amount) to deal with. The opportunity is there for quick money but the supply of lookie-loos is finite. The Viveport Arcade model would work for them the best but they'd still be paying $10/hour for gameplay.

 

3. The EXPERIENCE STORES, which run like bowling alleys, don't have the stream of the curious mall-walkers so have to sell longer times and encourage group engagement to drive traffic. They're in the $20-$50 per hour range with 8-16 Vives and a good number of games. To make the numbers work they have to be creative to engage customers, host parties, etc. to get the brand out there. These are the evangelists who are trying to get people to become regular VR users, who are hosting leagues and other engagement activities that are going to help HTC sell product.

 

The Viveport Arcade pricing model kills the Experience Stores, who are running 60-minute sessions and boast utilizations of 80%+. At a utilization of just 63% (assuming $30/hour like bowling lanes on the posh side of town), 403 game hours per week utilization, 16 Vives, they're looking at over $17k USD/month (HALF of monthly expenses in this model, 1/3 of gross revenue!) just for the game licensing.

 

I'm definitely biased here, but I believe if HTC's goal is to sell more Vives in the US, then supporting the EXPERIENCE model a bit better would serve you better in the long run. Discount minutes by volume, for instance?

 

Thank you for your reasoned consideration!

supra
Contributor

Re: Viveport Pricing

To quote my post from above...

-------------------

 

$10/hr for 1,000 points * 8hrs of operation per day* 30 days of operation per month = $2,400

 

With a 50/50 split, $1,200 goes to the developer and $1,200 goes to HTC.

 

That seems off by orders of magnitude.  I'm not aware of any developers that charge $1,200/month ($14,400) per year for a commercal license.  Space Pirate Trainer commercial license is only $30/month.  And that's for 24 hours a day.

 

At HTC rates, 24 hours per day * $10 / hr * 30 days a month = $7200.  Viveport is charging 240 times what a single SPT license costs.  I'm not sure having a variety of games is worth a 240x increase.   You could buy 240 individual licenses for different games at that price, for a single station.  Even at the $5 promotional pricing, it's a 120x increase.

 

 

 

 

Junkrat
Contributor

Re: Viveport Pricing

Not sure if anyone on this thread has used Viveport Arcade in the past but I have on question:

 

- When a game is downloaded on a the host machine, how is it then deployed to the gaming machines? is it shared over the LAN or does the game need to also be downloaded on the gaming machine?

 

Not sure of the deployment of the game from the host machine  to the gaming machine (client) works.

 

Would appreciate any thoughts.

sector7vr
Explorer

Re: Viveport Pricing

You're host PC will store all of the available games you downloaded (Viveport boasts 600+ available titles, but on a 2Tb pc you'll max out at about 50-100 depending on the games size, and no prime titles from what I've seen, so they want us to pay for access to all of these titles when we will never use a more than a quarter of them at a time), you then deploy the selected games to a client/gaming station and it has to be downloaded into the clients pc as well causing double storage space on both the host and the clients Pc's.

The host is really utilized as an account manager to manage the gaming stations, i.e., paid play time, distribution of games, ability to see availability of all stations in store from one central location and the ability to purchase and allocate points to stations for game play access.

However, you'll need a host pc for each location if you have two separate locations. As the clients receiving games and points must be from a host listed on the same internet connection.
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