VIVE Trackers conflict with cameras of motion capture system

SOLVED
ruiying
Settler

VIVE Trackers conflict with cameras of motion capture system

We tried the trackers with both OptiTrack Flex13 and Vicon system. While the cameras of motion capture system are on the Vive trackers turned very unstable...if you wave around trackers they can be tracked at some point but lost tracking very quickly. 

Isn't there any work around to solve this problem? any suggestion please...

Thanks

Ruiying

Vive Staff
Solution

Re: VIVE Trackers conflict with cameras of motion capture system

     Hi Ruiying, we're looking into it. What type of Vicon Setup are you using? Have you tried disabling the infrared sensors on the cameras and using just the visual tracking system? The Vive Trackers are essentially work the same as Vive controllers so I’m curious if about whether or not you’re having issues with tracking other Vive hardware since any IR interference from the cameras should also affect the headset as well as the controllers similarly… I suspect that you may have to use physical IR filters to isolate the systems from each other.


David R

Technical Specialist - San Francisco, CA; Monday-Friday

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ruiying
Settler

Re: VIVE Trackers conflict with cameras of motion capture system

Thanks for your reply

Our Vicon system using T10 near infrared cameras

Vive headset and controllers have been working fine with both of our motion capture systems. We are using first generation of headset and controllers.

I guess you might be using different sensors in trakcers and new generation of your product...

Vive Staff

Re: VIVE Trackers conflict with cameras of motion capture system

I believe they're the exact same sensors but will verify. Do the trackers work as designed when the cameras are switched off? 


David R

Technical Specialist - San Francisco, CA; Monday-Friday

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ruiying
Settler

Re: VIVE Trackers conflict with cameras of motion capture system

YES, Vive trackers work perfect as soon as cameras are off.

Vive Staff

Re: VIVE Trackers conflict with cameras of motion capture system

     I've looked further into this and it appears that both camera systems as well as lighthouse tracking rely on 850nm IR technology which is the root source of your interference problems. The trackers use the same TS3633s that are used in the HMD as well as the controllers and are merely arranged in a different configuration. The shell material for the tracker are the same as the controllers as well. We don't have access to either one of those MoCap systems to run our own tests to attempt to understand the interference but it might be that the Vive trackers are simply more sensitive to 850nm interference than the other Vive hardware due to their slightly different design and layout.

 

     For the time being I can only recommend that you disable the IR emitters on the cameras and relying on optical tracking when using trackers. If disabling the IR LEDs in-software is not possible I’d recommend trying to use physical IR filters that absorb 850nm to attempt to block the IR emissions from the cameras or unplugging the LED rings which is apparently possible on some configurations. I'll keep looking into this as I'm sure others will encounter this problem as the trackers become adopted.


David R

Technical Specialist - San Francisco, CA; Monday-Friday

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ruiying
Settler

Re: VIVE Trackers conflict with cameras of motion capture system

Thank you!

Vive Staff

Re: VIVE Trackers conflict with cameras of motion capture system

     I dug around some tech sheets and discovered that my previous statements are incorrect. The Vive HMD and the controllers use an HTC/Valve designed light to digital converter and PBC assembly whereas the Vive Trackers are using Triad manufactured TS3633's as well as a new PBC design. This could explain why they're more susceptible to IR interference than the HMD/controller technology. They fundamentally preform the same function but have underlying differences in design. This may mean that other technologies that will use the TS3633 may also face similar interference issues. 


David R

Technical Specialist - San Francisco, CA; Monday-Friday

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ruiying
Settler

Re: VIVE Trackers conflict with cameras of motion capture system

Thank you very much.  I'd like to let you know

if you have branches or staff in uk want to do more research about the problem, our lab is open to you to do the job. We are at Portsmouth

Moderator

Re: VIVE Trackers conflict with cameras of motion capture system

Hello, I'm curious as to your motion capture use cases and if you've considered a Vive Tracker only setup for motion capture. Were you able to work around the issue with the advice of using just video capture instead of infrared? I would also suggest to look at the hotspots or rather cold spots of coverage in the Tracker documentation as tracker placement could be a factor as well. Relatively speaking sensor coverage is greater on the HMD and controllers compared to the trackers, therefore placement (or how it's held) can affect tracking due to occlusion, Base station placement may need to be higher than usual to avoid occlusion.

 

-Dario

joeycampbell
Contributor

Re: VIVE Trackers conflict with cameras of motion capture system

Hi Ruiying.

I am about to do a user study using a vive and vicon setup.

I haven't turned on the vicon system yet as I've just gotten access to the vicon lab where I work.

Did you find any work around to your problem or is it a case that both systems are incompatible due to IR light spill?

Any work around or advice would be great.

Vive Staff

Re: VIVE Trackers conflict with cameras of motion capture system

@joeycampbell, Vicon and other IR based tracking systems tend to not be compatible with Vives using SteamVR 1.0 tracking. I've heard developer reports that SteamVR 2.0 tracking can be used with a wider array of IR based tracking systems including Vicon due to the elimination of optical sync. 


David R

Technical Specialist - San Francisco, CA; Monday-Friday

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massive_vr
Contributor

Re: VIVE Trackers conflict with cameras of motion capture system

Hi, sorry for bumping this, but we're also getting this issue, but I believe I have a bit more info on the setup, here it goes:

 

We have 2 VIVE HMD from 2016 and 4 VIVE HMD from 2018 (not Pro), here's what happens when we setup VIVE in the same area as the Optitrack system (Prime13 cameras):

-Setup area with the 2018 base stations (3x3 LED array)

-Turn on Optitrack system, then this happens:

  -> 2016 VIVE works properly (even with the new base stations)

  -> 2018 VIVE looses tracking

 

Have the sensors also change for the HMD? @VibrantNebula

 

Vive Staff

Re: VIVE Trackers conflict with cameras of motion capture system

@massive_vr, Yes - the sensor swap out is the biggest underlying change in the new model. They use these sensors. I would recommend contacting Triad directly as they've probably done extensive HW and interference testing against other commercial tracking solutions. 


David R

Technical Specialist - San Francisco, CA; Monday-Friday

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massive_vr
Contributor

Re: VIVE Trackers conflict with cameras of motion capture system

Thanks for replying, so there are 3 HMD models then?

-2016 VIVE with old sensors

-2018 VIVE with new sensors

-VIVE Pro with new sensors

Is that it?